boehner blinks, or does he? the house speaker pars back at debt ceiling reduction in a standoff with the president. what's at stake and how will the bargaining affect you and your family and your wallet. a live report and analysis straight ahead on msnbc sunday. also coming up, the woes of hines ward, a super bowl mvp who achieved glory on the dance floor as well. a run-in with the law in georgia put him in the slammer. the fly are car clearing another hurdle into driveways of the american hearts. i'm thomas roberts in for alex

witt. our buddy has some vacation time. welcome to msnbc sunday. it's 9:00 in the east, 6:00 out west. here is what's happening foreyou this morning. big news on the debt ceiling on the eve of today's meeting at that time white house. republicans pulled out of the grand bargain. the grand deal called for $4 trillion in spending cuts. republican house speaker john boehner says he wants no tax hikes included in the deal. could a plan for $2 trillion in cuts still work. nbc news white house correspondent mike viqueira has more on why this collapsed. >> good morning, thomas. >> john boehner is voting for a smaller measure. what's included in the $2 trillion plan that's getting these talks still invigorated? >> let's first sift through the wreckage of what happened late last night. it is extraordinaire, thomas. president obama and house speaker john boehner had agreed they wanted to go big. bigness is a target they said here at the white house.

$4.5 trillion, it would have been on a historic scale. we're talking about a dramatic over all of the tax code, reducing tax rates. eliminating entire tax brackets, simplifying the tax code, closing loopholes, tax breaks, subsidies for certain special interests and certain industries that had enjoyed subsidies for quite some time including oil and gas. democrats would have felt a lot of pain. dramatic changes to social security and medicare including possibly raising the retirement age for medicare from 65 to 67, reducing the cost of living adjustments within social security. a huge deal. obviously very controversial, but would have reduced the debt and spending in this country by $4.5 trillion over five years. house speaker john boehner last night pulled the plug, about 7:00, 8:00 last night putting out a statement saying the taxes in that deal which would have comprised about a third of that $4 trillion he simply could not agree with. the fact of the matter is

there's no way he could have gotten a majority of his house republican conference to go along. we're back to square one. talking about the $2 trillion deal that was on the table when biden was leading negotiations, house republicans walked out on that as well. in the aftermath of everything that happened last night, here is what the white house had to say. communications dan pfeiffer said, both parties have made progress. backing off now will confirm the cynicism people have about politics in washington. tomorrow, meaning today, he will make the case to congressional leaders that we must reject the politics of least resistance and take on this critical challenge. they get together tonight at 6:00, the eight leaders, house senate, republican and democrat, try to salvage something from the wreckage. august 2nd, clock still ticking, talking about catastrophic. many people are calling it outside the white house even, result if the debt ceiling is not raised by then. thomas. >> we get to this point of the

grand deal last night, the tipping point where maybe we'll see it go through. now we're back to this other plan we talked about a while ago. it makes people think, has the best deal already gone by and it's going to be something they double back to, ultimately dragging down the line until august 2nd. >> everybody's got their perspective. certainly in terms of a historic scale that has gone by the boards, appears to be unattainable. there's no guarantee they can get this thing, this $2 trillion package by anyway, shape or form. that would close some of the same loopholes, the tax loopholes, it would eliminate a lot of subsidies. oil and gases company subsidies, there are some reports it would close those off as well in returns for cuts in spending republicans want. no guarantees here, thomas. >> it looks pretty say spai shows behind you. the tree is gone. >> yeah, there were violent storms that came through last week on sunday. an old helm suffered as a

result. >> mike viqueira at the white house, thank you. it is a working weekend for presidential candidates in major primary states. in iowa, michele bachmann weighed in on a debt debate after the opening of her iowa campaign headquarters. she said don't let them scare you, we aren't going to the polls because revenue continues going in. she also launched attacks on the president's economic plan. >> we're now two years into president obama's recovery. president obama's recovery has a 9.2% unemployment rate. this is not working for millions of unemployed americans. >> jon huntsman is not participating in the iowa primary. he gave a pretty clear indication why at a campaign event in florida. >> if you own florida, you own the presidency. >> he also called the $14 trillion debt a cancer growing in this country that needs to be

read ated and cut out. the u.s. may decide to withhold millions in military aid to pakistan. this is according to a "new york times" report. the u.s. is said to be unhappy with the efforts that pakistani army has been making against the taliban as well as al qaeda. as well as $800 million in assistance could be suspended. this could cause some major problems. if pakistan takes tougher action, the aid could resume. mean while, defense secretary leon panetta is in afghanistan. panetta is meeting with american military leaders and afghan officials. nbc's atia abawi is in kabul this morning. bring us up to speed on what leon panetta is saying that al qaeda is basically on the run and close to being completely stamped out. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. the new secretary of defense's first trip as the defense secretary here in afghanistan, prior to arriving he talked to reporters on the plane about how

he feels alg al qaeda is going right now, the war against terror. he says the strategic defeat of al qaeda is within reach, primarily pointing the the death of bin laden, the information they got from the compound including names of different key al qaeda leaders. he says this is the time to actually end the war with al qaeda. let's listen to what he had to say. >> now is the moment following what happened with bin laden, to put maximum pressure on them because i do believe that, if we continue this effort, that we can really cripple al qaeda. >> reporter: al qaeda aside, leon panetta arrived in afghanistan yesterday making his way to kabul, first meeting his counterpart, wardak, as well as the president of afghanistan, president karzai saying he wants a private relationship with him. he doesn't want to air their

conversations to the media. he has a problem with the government, the obama administration he'd rather talk to him directly rather than the headlines within the media on the newspapers as well as television. >> atia, american people know what the deal is with pakistan, know how much money we've been putting into that country. explain, though, if the aid to pakistan is cut off, what type of ripple effect that has to the troops stationed in afghanistan and what's their feeling about this. how has that been first talked about on the ground? >> reporter: thomas, the big thing that many people think about is what does this mean for the supply routes, the nato supply routes that are coming from pakistan into afghanistan, but really when we talk about it the last several years, nato has had problems with those supply routes for some time. the taliban attacking the convoys that were coming through. pakistan themselves stopping some of these supply routes making it into afghanistan. but when you talk to the americans themselves, the men

and women on the ground, they believe that, if you give less less money to pakistan, that will help them even more because the pakistani military is not doing enough to fight the taliban on their side of the border. >> atia abawi in kabul, thank you. a scary moment to talk about in japan today. a 7.3 magnitude earthquake hit the country's northeast coast prompting a brief sue nam any warning. residents of coastal areas were forced to evacuate, but the warning was lifted without reports of major damage. you may recall this is an area still recovering from the devastating quake and the killer wave only four months ago that left nearly 23,000 dead or missing. it's much hotter than average this summer in the plains as well as the midwest. there's been a stretch of triple digit heat. it doesn't look like there's going to be much relief in sight any time toon. the weather channel's alex wallace joins us with the sunday forecast. alex, good morning. >> good morning to you, thomas. you said it, we've been dealing with the heat and it is going

nowhere. behind me on the map, all these areas shaded in brown, those are areas where we have heat advisories in place. some of these in effect today, others go into effect for tomorrow into tuesday. you can see a pretty large swath dealing with parts of the deep south up into the midwest including st. louis, kansas city, all the way down towards memphis. check out some of the high temperatures we'll be finding for our afternoon. dallas, for you it's been a string of hundred-degree readings for you over the last -- seems like forever. more for your sunday. 101 degrees there. even the heat starting to build into the upper midwest. minneapolis, 94 for the afternoon, 91 around chicago. as we head into our monday, the heat begins to shift a little farther off towards the north and the east. now getting into some of the northeastern cities. albany, 90 for your afternoon on monday with philadelphia reaching 94 degrees. certainly feeling like summer in these spots with the continued triple digit heat across the southern plains as well as texas as we get into tuesday.

the southeast, hotlanta, 96 degrees. when you factor in the heat and humidity it's going to feel like it's well over 100. taking it easy over the southern plains, midwest and northeast over the next few day also be the key, thomas. >> alex, thanks so much. appreciate it. interesting news to pass along this morning that will catch a lot of people off guard after hines ward of the pittsburgh steelers was arrested for dui. his arrest was in georgia on saturday, the winner of this year's dancing with the stars was charged with dui. more now from nbc's ron mott. >> reporter: graceful and rhythmic on the dance floor, sleek and powerful on the gridiron. hines ward pulled a move this weekend that landed him in jail. police outside atlanta arrested ward early saturday morning for suspicion of drunk driving, releasing him on $1,000 bond. according to tmz.com, ward's manager says hines denies driving drunk and is deeply sat

saddened by the incidents, apologizing to his fans and the steelers organization. a super bowl mvp, ward's run-in with the law might have been restricted to the sports section had he nod just been crowned champion on "dancing with the stars." >> for some of his fans, the damage is done, they'll turn against him. he'll lawyer up and get threw this quite easily and just move on. >> reporter: it's note ward's first waltz to flashing blue lights. in may he and a female friend were handcuffed by police after a traffic stop in los angeles, eventually let go without charges. in recent years some pittsburgh steelers players like ward have been magnets for troubling headlines. quarterback ben roethlisberger was twice accused of sexual assault, though no criminal charges were filed. running back rashard mendenhall was forced to respond to a tweet critical of obama.

>> i feel like he should know better. it upsets me a little bit. >> this is a good group of guys, it really s. even though they've been getting in trouble off feeshlgsd some of them. >> reporter: for fans of hinsz ward, on the field and the dance floor, the hope is he'll take notice of that ironic four-letter word of the t-shirt in his mugshot, "obey". still ahead, wills and kate go all hollywood. the duke and duchess of cambridge rub elbows with the stars as they prepare to bid ado to california. a milestone moment in history for the captain of the yankees and a surprise move by the man who caught jeter's home run obama. it's the pain in spain. we'll take you to the biggest day for the baddest bulls in a traditional rampage where guts sand glory sometimes get gored. you're watching msnbc sunday. stick around. we set our goals higher than anyone.

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welcome back everybody. baseball history on saturday as derek jeter bake mr. 3,000 t. yankee captain blasted a home run into left field. it was his career hit number 3,000 t. young man who recovered that ball might have sold it for big bucks. he decided to give it back to jeter. >> he deserves this. he's worked so hard for this. i'm not really the person to take something away from him like that. >> he can hang out with jeter. jeter is the first yankee and the only 28th player in baseball history to reach the 3,000 mark. one dead agreement is out after the gop pulled support of a possible $4 trillion deal.

tonight top democrats and republicans will sit down with the president to discuss another option totaling roughly $2 trillion in cuts. joining me now is former florida governor and senator bob graham, also the author of a new novel "keys to the kingdom." we'll talk about that book in a moment and also talk about derek jeter, too, i promise. we can have those two things for everybody to wait for. let's first talk about the debt ceiling. are you concerned that lawmakers on both sides are really playing against each other in the rhetoric ramping up, especially with the august 2nd date looming, that they could be getting this work done faster? >> thomas, what i think is we're getting a lot of political theater, people are speaking to their bases and not to what's necessary to solve the problem. the united states of america has never defaulted on its debt. it's not going to do so in 2011. we know what the last chapper is going to be, an agreement. the question is how much longer will we have to go through the

theatrics before we get down to serious negotiations. >> you think from your professional experience in dealing with these, you know where everybody's number is in their mind, they know where they how and how they can get there? >> yes, and i think there's a general recognition there's going to be a lot of bane. that pain is going to have to be distributed. if one falls on one group, let's say the elderly through social security cuts and health care, that will create an outcry. if everybody feels they're being treated fairly even though difficultly, they will be much more likely to accept it. >> senator bernie sanders always talks about the shared sacrifice this country needs to feel collectively. senator mark warner is saying entitlement programs need to be on the table. is that something you agree with? >> i think the entitlement programs represent a big part of our budget. there are areas in which there can be significant savings

without adversely affecting the beneficiaries of those programs. >> all right. i want to switch to the book. we told everybody would would talk about "keys to the kingdom." a novel that involves a link twoen al qaeda saudi arabia. here we are coming up on the tenth anniversary of the september 11th attacks. you say it does include close ted real information. what do you mean by that? often people say write what you know. in this book, how much are we supposed to be reading between the lines here? >> thomas, i'd say 40% of this book is fact. i've changed the names of living people. other than that, it's reality. i think that's what makes the book exciting, is people will see that they are almost reading from the headlines of things like pakistan, afghanistan, the post bin laden, al qaeda, all important parts of this. now, wrapped around all that

fact, i hope is an entertaining plot with some fascinating characters. >> when we do look at this, donald rumsfeld was the secretary of defense and he told reporters states are supporting these people. so saudi arabia was involved, why isn't that more -- been reported? >> briefly, thomas, there are some unquestioned facts that saudi arabia was providing significant assistance to at least two of the 19 hijackers living in san diego. the questions are why was saudi arabia doing this? was it also providing assistance to the other 17 hijackers and why did the united states go to such lengths including censuring the congressional i believe queries report on the events leading up to 9 slush 11 that

related to the role of saudi arabia. there are a lot of unanswered questions and "keys to the kingdom" starts with finding the answers. >> if you say 40% of what's in this book is fact, do you think it will will make way for certain avenues of discussion? >> it might. for instance, that 27-page censured part of our final report i think ought to be made available to the public. i hope some of the analysis about what's happening today, particularly pakistan and afghanistan, will stimulate some public understanding and discussion. >> the book is called "keys to the wing dom." jaric jeter, you were saying he got his swing back in florida? >> that's what derek said. he said when he went for rehab in tampa, it redid his swing and it showed up yesterday, 5 for 5. >> florida is a good place for all kind of ills. >> all kinds of swings.

>> senator bob graham, thanks for coming in. congratulations on the book. great to meet you in person. remembering a decorated war hero who lost his life after a tragic fall from a roller coaster. stay with us, you're watching msnbc sunday. you're back right after this. ñññ

a tragedy in new york after an army vet who lost both his legs in iraq was killed at an amusement park on friday. the 29-year-old sergeant was thrown from a 208-foot roller coaster. kevin tibbles joins me to explain what happened. this is so sad after all this young man went through to die so tragically this way. >> indeed. this is a tragic story of a young man who lost so much in the service of his country only to lose his life once back at home. >> reporter: he was a decorated hero from the war in iraq, two tours of duty.

but when 29-year-old sergeant james hackemer came home in 2008, he lost both his legs in roadside bomb attack. >> this chance to come home has been a miracle. >> reporter: he had been working to rebuild his life as a son, husband and father of two. his family was profiled by nbc's buffalo affiliate wgrz shortly after he was injured. >> he loved life. he really loved his family. >> reporter: following years of rehabilitation, hammer went friday to the dereon lake amusement park about 30 miles outside buffalo with friends and family. he wanted to try the ride of steel and climbed into the front seat. the roller coaster reaches a feet of 208 feet and speeds topping 70 miles per hour. after coming off one of the steep, sharp hills, hack merp was thrown from the ride. >> as far as we know there was nothing mechanicalwise that would have caused the accident.

>> reporter: hackemer recently returned from walter reed with a new set of prosthetic legs. she added he was assisted on the ride and was doing what he wanted to do. >> we are currently investigating the situation with our safety experts and local authorities. meanwhile, the attract and the surrounding area is closed pending the investigation. >> reporter: later the amusement park released a further statement saying we are all broken hearted by this tragic accident and will continue our support of both the family and the investigation. hackemer's aunt say it was tragic he survived the war in iraq only to die in an amusement park. of course, thomas, the investigation by both the park and the authorities into this young plan's tragic death continues. thomas? >> it is so sad. kevin tibbles, thanks so much. still ahead, the duke and duchess of cambridge get the hollywood star treatmentment before they leave california they'll be paying a visit to skid row. and what once might have been a

flight of fancy, it's coming true. the flying car reaches another milestone on the road to reality. you need a runway instead of a driveway now. you're watching msnbc sunday. stick around. i ate breakfast and got heartburn, third day this week. so i took my heartburn pill and some antacids. we're having mexican tonight, so another pill then? unless we eat later, then pill later? if i get a snack now, pill now? skip the snack, pill later... late dinner, pill now? aghh i've got heartburn in my head. [ male announcer ] stop the madness of treating frequent heartburn. it's simple with prilosec otc. one pill a day. twenty-four hours. zero heartburn. no heartburn in the first place. great.

welcome back to msnbc sunday. i'm thomas roberts filling in for alex witt. new this morning, treasury secretary tim geithner is defending the obama administration after the bleak jobs report. 18,000 jobs were created in the month of june, far fewer than expected. moments ago on "meet the press" david gregory asked geithner if the recovery is now stalled. >> there's no doubt when the economy slows, job creation will slow. that's what happened. it slowed because, as you know, gas prices went up a lot because we had a huge supply disruption in the middle east. you saw some really terrible weather across the country which slowed construction spending. stated and local governments across the country are having to

caught back, tighten their belts. you saw japan suffer catastrophic damage. a lot of concern out of europe, still. those factors together account for a large part -- >> neil irwin is a financial reporter for "the washington post" and joins me this morning. give us your basic reaction to geithner's defense there? >> what he is saying is accurate, all those factors played into the weak growth we saw in the first half which is reflected in the weak job growth we saw in june. what we've seen is quarter after quarter these special factors come about. we keep having weak growth year after year. the thing is, this is a weak underlying expansion. therefore, anything that comes along, whether bad weather or an earthquake in japan seems to knock it off its stride and leave us in this situation of very weak growth. >> it's not just unemployment, but the underemployment that's the huge problem, 16.2% of americans are out of work. when you factor that those who have settled for part-time work or stopped looking altogether

after out complete frustration, is it possible things are worse than what we know? >> i think it is. one number i like to look at is the employment population ratio, meaning you don't worry about who is looking for a job, you look at how many people have jobs relative to the size of the united states population. that number is at its lowest point in the recession. that has not been improving. as we've seen some job growth, that is a number that hasn't budged. that's a sign that even though there are jobs created here and there and the unemployment rate overall has come down over the last six months, not making the real progress we need to put people back to work. >> let's go over this. reuters did a poll after friday's job numbers came out. they still expect unemployment to keep falling to 8.7 to 2011 to 8.4 by mid 2012 and down to 8.1 by the end of 2012. why is that the expectation? we continue to see a drop, but how can they give that genuine of a forecast? >> well, as the treasury

secretary said on "meet the press" there were one-time factors that impacted this first half. maybe as those factors disap pee we'll get back on a straightly stronger overall pace of growth. that said, it's not like we're in a row best recovery where we're having one bad quarter. we're having quarter after quarter of weakness. the european debt situation could turn into a crisis any day. you have this showdown over the u.s. debt, what's going to happen there, and so it's not as if there's a lot of pent up energy that's going to lead to a robust recovery any time soon. >> connect the dots, the debate over the debt ceiling connected to the jobs report if at all. there we have the president coming out talking on friday saying we need to talk about the jobs report but we're worried about the debt ceiling right now, and trying to connect the two by saying, look at the shiny object over here as opposed to looking at what the hard facts are right now. >> it's hard to be sure what the relationship is. here is a few things. if there were to be a failure of the u.s. paid debt, a default,

that could be catastrophic for the economy. if this isn't resolved somehow, you can imagine bad impacts on the financial markets, on the economy. in the near term, it's possible corporations are sitting around nervous about how this will work out so maybe they held back on hiring some in may and june. that's certainly a possibility. hard to prove, but it's a possibility. the third thing is just this idea that if we cut the deficit too fast, if suddenly spending is slashed, taxes are raised in the near future. that could take some of the air out of the recovery quickly. you want to reduce the deficit over the long run, but not too fast so you lose the expansion we have. >> neil irwin, thank you. the space shuttle "atlantis" is headed for its last documenting with the international spals station. the astronauts, their wake-up call today was the music from the electric light orchestra. this is the final mission of the 30-year shuttle program. the crew will unload supplies for the space station, roughly 8,000 pounds of supplies. joining me from houston is former astronaut leroy chow.

i want to tell everybody you were able to fly three different missions, the commander at the space station for more than ix months. as we look back on the era that has been the shuttle program. how grateful are you for the experiences you've had in your lifetime, in your involvement being an astronaut? >> extremely fortunate, especially in my career as an astronaut. i came into the program in 1990 in the heart of the shuttle operations era and was fortunate enough to fly on three different shuttle missions and served as the commander of the international space station for what turned out to be a six and a half month flight. >> we have a picture up of you doing a space walk. can't see your face, obviously, you have your helmet on. it's pretty amazing to think that you have had this type of life experience. but explain to us, as you were saying, you came in in 1990 during the height and successfulness of the shuttle program. what do you think the legacy is going to be of the program as

historians look back on it? >> well, the shuttle is still the most amazing flying machine ever conceived, designed, built and operated. think about it. it's a winged vehicle, but launches like a rocket, gets into space, turns into a superb research platform or construction platform. we could not have built the international space station without it. then it comes back for a soft landing on a conventional runway, gets refurbished and gets to do irt again in about a hundred days. there's nothing on the drawing board that comes close. no other nation has built or operated a space station. the russian ber ran flew one time, unmanned, landed automatic and did nothing else. the french air miss and the japanese hope space plans never made it off the drawing boards. i'm sorry to see it go. i'm sorry to lose that corporate knowledge of how to build and operate a space plane. >> the question is why stop it? why should we depend on the

russian soy use to get astronauts into space? >> it's a question of money. the one part of the shuttle program that didn't live up to the promise was the promise of inexpensive access to space. quite the opposite. we were learning about the shuttle and the cost ended up being quite high. it was a budget decision that we could not continue on this path. i personally don't think it's that much. as you know the nasa budget is less than one-half of 1% of the total fed rat budget. adding a little more to keep the shuttle flying in my mind would have been worth it. >> it truly is a part of our american narrative, our history, being the leaders when it comes to space. what is your thought -- i guess the feeling that you have as an astronaut about the privatization of space travel which is going to be the future now? >> well, i'm all for the commercialization aspect of space. two years ago i was part of the white house panel that was called the review of u.s. human space flight plans committee. we looked at several different

options and we put forward that sub options, these ideas of nasa stimulating the commercial market to try to turn over the transportation between the earth's surface and lower earth orbit to commercial ventures. the idea being that we've been sending astronauts into space for over 50 years. the technology is mature. it's a matter of seeing if we can create the business case, turn that over to the private sector and nasa can focus resources on exploring beyond lower earth orbit. >> hear roy chiao, thanks for your perspective. appreciate it. the duke and duchess of cambridge were on the town in hollywood last night. prince william and his bride brought out the stars and nbc's peter alexander was there and has more for us. >> reporter: it doesn't happen every day. hollywood's a-list crowd, themselves star struck. the future king and queen of england spending their final night overseas at this black tie

affair. easily the most glamorous event of the nully wed's tour. >> i'd like to thank colin firth for my perfect opening line, "i have a voice. >> reporter: among the celebrities, nicole kidman, tom hanks and barbra streisand. on saturday, their only full day in america, the duke and duchess helicoptered into santa barbara for a charity polo match, all smiles on the red carpet. >> my father, the prince of wales, and my brother harry were as green as that grass outside when i told them i would be here today. >> reporter: guests paid up to $4,000 to attend the vip luncheon prepared by celebrity chef, gee atta deloren tas. >> the prince said this will give me the nrnlg i need to win this match. >> reporter: william didn't disappointed, leading his team to victory with four goals.

rewarded afterward by a rare public kiss and a silver tiffany trophy presented by his wife. their admirers were smitten. >> i get goose bumps for him to be on our turf is breathtaking. i'm thrilled. i'm so thrilled they're here. >> my breath was taken away for sure. >> reporter: but for all the glitsz and flaum more surrounding their u.s. visit, william and kate wanted to see more than hollywood. this morning they'll drive through los angeles's skid row, the nation's homeless capital to visit this inner city arts program where the children have been practicing for weeks to perform for the royal couple. >> it's definitely an honor and a privilege and a huge pleasure. >> reporter: a meaningful end to a memorable first visit. peter alexander, nbc news, los angeles. >> we hope to have them back. we love having them here. shifting our focus to our four-legged friends.

in new york the stars turned up on broadway for a ped adoptionathon. more than 200 pets benefited from last year's event. let's hope more pets can find nice homes this year. stay with us. you're watching msnbc sunday. [ male announcer ] at nissan, we test the altima's durability on a track that simulates the world's toughest roads. ♪ [ tires screeching ] ♪ if it can survive this drive... ♪ it can survive yours. the nissan altima. innovation that lasts. innovation for all. ♪

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♪ because of you [echoing] we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors. we make a great pair. right, totally. uh... that's what i was thinking. hmm. covering the things that make the outdoors great. now that's progressive. call or click today. in pamplona spain, eight people were hurt in today's running of the bulls. fortunately for them, they were not gored. several runners tripped, got trampled, suffered minor injuries. today's run is usually the most crowded of the eight free-for-alls because the fourth day's race features spain's biggest fighting bulls. now we move on to politics in the race for 2012. michelle balk plan told crowds in iowa the u.s. will not default even if there is no deal to raise the debt ceiling. the minnesota congresswoman say

it is government has enough revenue coming in to pay off debts. she's drawn criticism for comments she made on cnbc friday about how the economic climate is affecting her canned ka see. >> does it strike you as the unemployment rate goes up, your chances for winning office could be go up? >> that could be. again, i hope so. my candidacy is one i hope to be a job creator and turn the economy around. >> richard fouler is a democratic strategist and susan, i want to start with you, hearing backman's response, it's called of cold when you think about the fact she'd like to see the american economy go south a little further. do republicans want the economy to daning so they can easily win the white house? why do they want to see america suffer in the meantime? we're already doing poorly as it is. >> i don't think that's exactly what she meant. i think what she was saying is

when you look at obama's record on job creation or any other republican running right now, their record or what they plan to do, it will be a stark difference. the american public will want something different. >> what is her record on job creation? >> as far as what she's done in the congress, she's owned a business, she's had real life experience and she wants to bring that to the presidency. >> richard, president obama responded to this dismal jobs figure by saying it was part from uncertainty over the debt ceiling. but job growth the last time around last month, is the president being realistic by blaming it on the debt ceiling? how can we connect the dots there when we have the debt ceiling talks that have been on going foursome time? we know that. but these dots really don't connect for me. >> i think they do connect, thomas. i think what the president is saying is if you were a fortune 500 ceo, we're not uncertain of

what the government is going to do, we know the republicans are holding this crisis hostage and we can't make hiring decisions. we saw when the president passed a budget deal during the first shutdown in the april time frame, how we saw an increase -- a decrease in the unemployment numbers due to the fact these companies felt assured that the president and the government will get their act together. sadly i think right now companies don't feel certain. the reason is because members of the gop are holding the budget hostage. i'm including michele bachmann. the sad part, going to what susan was saying earlier, michele bachmann doesn't have a plan on jobs. their only plan is we don't agree with the president, but they haven't created a way to stimulate the economy. >> right now the president is focused on deflecting that. thomas, i agree with you. i don't see the two connecting because i don't think you'd hear the president say if the job report number was very good, now we don't have to focus on the debt ceiling, that wouldn't be a problem. i agree with you the two should not be connected and the president is failing the country

right now when it comes to job creation. >> i want to play john john boehner's concerns about not raising the debt ceiling. this is what he had to say on friday. take a listen. >> we're up against the debt limit. while some think we can go past august 2nd i frankly think it puts us in an awful lot of jeopardy and puts our economy in jeopardy. risking even more jobs. >> all right. there we have him saying that this is a real date coming up on august 2nd. susan, is michele bachmann playing a different and dangerous game by saying the debt ceiling deadline could be missed? >> i'm not going to judge what kind of game she's playing. i don't know what her strategy here is. i agree with speaker boehner. i think it is important. i think right now she's running in a presidential primary and these are her beliefs just as there are many freshman members of congress who believe the debt ceiling should not be raised. that's actually part of what led us to today's headlines, boehner basically wanting a short-term

deal. >> i want to thank you both of you. we'll have you back in the next hour. we're going to ask everybody to stick by. we'll see you again shortly. >> thanks for having me. it's a newfangled way to get around. the flying car passes another road test toward reality. could we all some day be traveling the jetsons way? do you need a runway instead of a driveway? look at that thing. back with much more here on msnbc sunday. >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network. [ female announcer ] ever wish vegetables didn't taste so vegetably?

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another hurdle cleared this week for what's being billed as the first flying car. the national highway traffic safety administration just gave roadway clearance to the transition. that's the flying car design ed by the massachusetts base company. their flying car looks like it's ready for takeoff. joining us is the ceo.

roadway clearance was a pretty big step in this, correct? this is something you needed to overcome to take this, i guess, to the closest we've ever gotten to the possibility that we could be in flying vehicles as cars? >> well, that's correct. terrafugia's transition is really the first practical step in the direction of sort of our science fiction dream of a flying car. but this is the reality. this is what we can do today with the existing regulatory infrastructure and the existing technology of the day. >> all right. let's run down some of the details about transition so that our viewers can know exactly what's going on with the process here. so it's already cleared by the national highway traffic safety administration. the expected price per unit is based roughly around $250,000. a $10,000 reservation deposit will be needed. then to fully operate you're going to need both a pilot license and a driver's license. then it's going to get 35 miles per gallon on the road? is that correct?

35? >> that's what we're expecting. we've got an extensive battery of tests coming up over the next year. we are expecting it to do at least 35 miles to the gallon on the road and cruise in the air at over 100 miles per hour, flying over 400 miles. really expanding the network of regional places that an independent business owner could visit or recreational pilot could visit. >> how do you regulate the air traffic that could be populated by the existence of this coming into commercialization? >> well, the reality of the market is that it's going to come in very gradually. and so that air traffic control system is actually in the process of being modernized right now by the faa. so we don't expect there will be any challenges with regard to air traffic control in the foreseeable future. >> also, what about privatization of airfields that would deal specifically with this type of vehicle?

or would they be going to smaller airports that already exist? >> most of these vehicles will be flown in and out of small airports that already exist. in fact, the united states has approximately 5,000 public-used airports around the country, one on average within a half hour drive of wherever you are. it's just that most people don't know about them. nasa identifies this network of airport as our nation's largest underutilized transportation resource. what we're hoping to do with the transition is really make better use of that existing infrastructure to allow more common travel by light air traft. >> carl, we have to go. what year do you predict that we're going to see this coming to fruition. >> right now we're expecting first deliveries to start at the end of next year. around the end of 2012. >> all right. we'll look forward to it. thanks for coming on today. we appreciate your time and all that information about transition. pretty cool stuff. >> thanks for having me on.

imagine circling the globe about 400 times in an airplane. we're going to meet the frequent flier who has landed in the record books by doing just that. also ahead, tad's debt reduction pow wow at the white house. will it lead to a bargaining breakthrough or yet another breakdown? a live report straight ahead on msnbc sunday.